管郁达：你80年代在上海上大学，学的是美术，当时你怎么会选择画画呢？是否与你儿时的经历或家庭背景有关？什么原因促使你走上当代水墨艺术创作的道路呢？

　　陆春涛：我选择画画，完全是出于个人喜好，家里倒没有从事美术这一行的。在很小的时候，我就对那些连环画和屋檐、灶头上的风俗画有着浓厚的兴趣，一边看，一边自己也依着葫芦画瓢地涂鸦。慢慢长大了，这种喜爱就更强烈了，先后也跟过几位老师学习，是越画越愿画，越离不开画。

　　说到走上当代水墨艺术的道路，对我而言，是个自然而然的选择。以前读书的时候，我师从花鸟名家钱行健老师，可以说是出师于传统水墨。那时我也特别用功，疯狂地画画，年轻嘛，好胜心强，凡事总想做到最好。而这样心态下的一个好处就是练就了扎实的传统功底，其实在那时我对水墨艺术的理解还只限于对传统的模仿和再现。可随着年龄的增长、眼界的开阔，我开始不安于现状，总觉得只讲传统笔墨，用句比较时髦的话就是“不给力”，所以偶尔我也开始尝试着进行一些创作上的小“革命”，偶尔打破中西绘画的界限，打破水墨、色彩等形式材料的分工。直到2003年非典期间，我闭关画画，开始把这种尝试性的探索转变为系统性的创作，于是有了“瓶花”系列。而且我越发觉得在这种中西融合的绘画表达中找到了“自由感”，我想也就是从那时起开始了所谓当代水墨艺术之路吧。

　　管郁达：你的出生、成长、学习、生活都在上海，是土生土长的上海人。从20世纪70年代到今天，上海经历了巨大的变革和变迁，而你也见证了上海的变化，那么作为当代水墨在上海的代表艺术家，可否谈谈你对水墨艺术不同时期变化的感受和理解？

　　陆春涛：那就结合我自身的绘画经历来谈一谈吧，上海水墨艺术的发展，应该是从上世纪80年代后，特别是“85新潮”之后开始再度活跃的，那个时候受西方艺术观念的全面冲击，一些水墨艺术家转向所谓实验水墨、抽象水墨的尝试，一开始只是简单地把传统中国画和西方艺术中的元素符号嫁接在一起，以一种表面化的方式作为中国当代艺术的模式，去迎合西方的当代艺术。

　　但是进入到2000年以后，随着当代艺术在中国轰轰烈烈的发展，之前的那种探索和尝试变得越来越浅显和单薄。那个时候，大家开始了更深入的思考，特别是在整个当代艺术的语境下，水墨艺术应该如何革新、如何表达……这些都是大家思考的新课题，说白了，就是开始真正思考什么是“水墨”的当代性内涵和形式，以及如何建构。

　　这一情况一直持续到近几年，随着与国际前沿艺术的交流频繁，又加上艺术市场的刺激，大家开始转向深层次地对水墨艺术内核性的探讨、对传统性的解读。所以现在大家纷纷开始进行更有内涵和文化自信的艺术探索，目的就是想以民族性面貌在国际艺术舞台上亮相。

　　管郁达：你是当代“海派”绘画的重要代表人物之一，水墨的技法和风格都趋向成熟，而之前你也经历了几个阶段，“瓶花”系列、“荒谷”系列到今天的“荷塘”系列，不管在形式语言，还是内容题材上，都有可观的变化，这种改变得益于什么？是什么促使这种转变？陆春涛：这种改变应该是源于两个方面，一个是源于大的艺术环境的不断发展;另一个就是自己对自己的要求了。

　　在我眼里，水墨艺术不是独善其身、一成不变的，它逃脱不掉整个大的社会艺术背景的影响，我个人的创作也不例外。基本上我的几个转变期也都对应着当代水墨艺术发展的几个阶段，说明外界的影响是有的。但不管创作手段、题材如何变化，我都秉持着一种艺术态度——用切合时代的方式在作品中体现自己对东方文化和审美意识的独特认识与理解。这也是我艺术中不变的精神核心。

　　刚才说的这个算是外因，另一个就是内因。随着个人成长，看的多了，思考的多了，想表达的东西自然也会发生改变。对于我来说，水墨的表达就是我思考外化的呈现媒介。在表达的过程中，只是拘泥于一种风格，比如单靠传承传统笔墨的程式不免会有些局限，自然就想要找到一种更适合于当下表达的形式与内容，所以技法上要改变，观念上也要改变。2003年画“瓶花”系列，其实想法很单纯，就是想在绘画中找到了一种“随心所欲”的自由感。而慢慢地，这种状态成为绘画回馈给我的乐趣之一，而水墨也越来越作为我思考表达里不可或缺的媒介。所以到了“荒谷”、“江边”的时候，表达越发自由奔放，也开始大胆地尝试形式、样式的变化，对西方抽象艺术也有所借鉴。而现在的“荷塘”系列，是对水墨艺术进一步的思考，借荷塘的韵来传递水墨精神的内核。

　　其实，在我看来，不断的自我改变就是在不断地自我挑战，是件好事。可以在学习的过程中，加强自己对于绘画艺术及生活的理解。毕竟每一个绘画阶段，都意味着一位艺术家的艺术发展过程，一路走来留下的恰恰就是这些有意义的足迹。

　　管郁达：你从事水墨艺术创作很多年了，作品中保留了传统的文人气息，有着文人情怀，体现为一种文人精神。你认为这种精神在当代水墨艺术中体现在什么地方？陆春涛：当代艺术强调的是艺术家对当下社会环境的感知和观点的表达。而今天我们常常谈及的水墨传统，在一定意义上是指文人画传统，而它所倡导的那种逸笔草草和独抒性灵的艺术境界，实则是建立在对独立的人文精神的重视上。而这种文人精神发展到今天，内核其实是没有变掉的，与西方所言的“当代艺术”非但不冲突，而且还有着契合点——强调个人对时代的感知性和独立的精神内涵。

　　管郁达：社会在发展，科技也在进步，水墨创作和呈现的形式、方法也越来越多样化，如影像水墨、装置水墨等，为艺术的表达提供新的阐释的可能，与传统的呈现和表达形式相比较，你是如何认识今天的水墨艺术的？

　　陆春涛：在多元的文化背景下，今天的水墨绘画实际上是处于多重文化的临界状态，比如对于它的欣赏，是既可从东方看，也可从西方看;这里面既有传统的气血，也有当代的面貌。

　　你刚才提到的“社会发展，科技进步”直接影响的是水墨的创作手段、工具以及表达形式和方法等，就像影像水墨、装置水墨的出现，但这些只是在工具、材料上做多样化的转变，可是对于当代水墨而言，要的不仅仅是形式上的多元、也不是简单的对题材和主题上的“拿来主义”，重要的是观念和精神性的表达，以及之间的逻辑性。

　　今天的水墨艺术发展不可避免地会受到西方艺术的影响，所以有的时候整个大环境会显得有些“急功近利”，认为只要是“新的就是好的，就是当代的”。但事实上对“新”的表现是要有根基的，只是为了求新而新，那是炫技，对今天的水墨绘画而言是没有实际意义的。

　　管郁达：作为一个艺术家，你觉得当代水墨艺术最重要的是什么？中国的艺术问题，很多时候不是艺术自身的问题。你觉得目前中国需要什么样的艺术、什么样的艺术家？

　　陆春涛：艺术家就是要做好艺术家自己的份内事，画好画、用作品来说话。但是这种表达不是简单地重复前人、重复西方，如果只是些空洞的内容、简单的形式变形又有什么意思?就像我刚才说的不是“新的就是好的，就是当代的”。重要的是要有个人的感知和认知。

　　中国的当代艺术相比西方艺术语境，缺少一种一以贯之的艺术根基，在相当一段时间里，我们其实是在跟着西方艺术跑。所以，现在中国艺术家的关键是把自己的根找回来，要结合个人语境展开有关 绘画的讨论和思考，建立属于自己的当代艺术，否则只能是一种伪当代。而这种思考和观念的表达重要的是形式和内容统一，首先要言之有物，再根据内容研究用什么样的形式。

　　管郁达：石涛说“笔墨当随时代”，这不仅指笔墨技法的借鉴学习、创新、进步，而在今天也是指一种人文情怀和个人关照，确切的说，是个人语言的社会意义。从艺术史上讲，自“85”以来，中国艺术从来没有像今天这样，形成个人语言表达的社会化。你是如何看待这种趋势的？

　　陆春涛：“笔墨当随时代”，先要明确现在的时代是什么。其实，今天再言一体化、多元化、全球化已是老生常谈，因为这是一个不争的事实了，所以随着近些年“水墨艺术”升温，艺术的国际性交流也越来越频繁。现在，水墨“当随时代”的问题应该是如何更好地让中国水墨在当代艺术的舞台上进行国际性对话。中国当代水墨要能展现东方艺术的审美核心——意韵，不是以简单的“笔墨程式”出场，而要转向对水墨内涵的挖掘，对东方性精神的表达，我想只有这样才能更为牢固地确立中国水墨在当代艺术多元化格局中的地位。

　　管郁达：当代水墨有着自己的思想、态度和立场的表达，无论社会与时代发生怎么样的变化，它自身具有的自由性和独立性，甚至还有批判性是不能被改变的。你怎样在创作中解决这个问题？陆春涛：都说我的创作是介于东方和西方之间的。其实，中西融合的思想也正是我在寻求表达时的方法论来源。对此每个人的理解可能不一样，我试图追求一种新的意境，但这种新的意境是发迹于水墨的东方性精神内核的，在此基础上，再言如何做“当代性”的突破。

　　因为我们的水墨画再宽泛，也是在中国水墨、中国画领域内，这就有它的特殊要求，其中最重要的核心不仅仅是笔墨，而是对东方性精神的表现。所以我在作品中追求的就是我理解的中国水墨的意境，即古人所谓的“诗情画意”，这种境界是古今相通的。只是结合当下，这种意韵需要升华，不单是古人的小桥流水，而是需要找寻一种能引起现代观者共鸣的当代诗意和诗境。所以有人说看我的创作，跟西方意识形态下当代艺术给人的张扬感不同，有一种内敛的爆发力，韵味悠长，我想这大概就是中西融合所给予我作品的水墨气质吧。

　　管郁达：对于你目前的艺术创作状态，你的感受和期待是什么？

　　陆春涛：现在，创作在我的生活中占了大部分的比重，我的生活几乎都与画画有关，我很喜欢泡在画室里，也很享受画画带给我的喜悦、自由，甚至是那种思考的痛苦。如果说年轻时夜以继日地创作是为追求艺术家的梦想，而现在画画则是我的一种生活方式和状态，是精神和情感演绎的外化表达了。

　　至于说期待什么，我觉得用不着刻意，绘画会自然回馈你的，比如随着个人实践的不断增多，体悟不断加深，总会有新的东西透过画面迸发出来，让你玩味，给你惊喜。所以说现在对我而言就是不断地自我超越，自觉而主动地进行艺术创新就好。

　　“Art is my lifestyle, my way of living”

　　– An interview with Lu Chuntao

　　Guan Yuda

　　Guan Yuda (GYD): Youentered college in Shanghai in 1980s, majoring in art. Why did you choose painting? Did it have to do with your childhood experience or family background? What promoted you to start exploring in the realm of contemporary ink art?

　　Lu Chuntao (LCT): None of my family members was engaged in art. I chose painting purely out of personal interest. When I was a kid, I started to have a liking for picture-story books and folk paintings that often hung under eaves or in kitchen. Though I didn’t have any tutor, I tried to copy those paintings. When I grew a bit older, such a liking became even stronger. I learned from several teachers and increasingly felt that painting was an integral part of my life.

　　To explore in the realm of contemporary ink art is a natural step for me to take. When I was at school, I learned from teacher Qian Xingjian, a renowned Chinese traditional painter known for his vivid delineation of flowers and birds. To me, my journey in the world of art started from Chinese painting. Back then I worked very hard. I was young and ambitious, always wanting to do the best. One benefit of that was a solid grasp of basic skills. But my understanding of ink art at that time was quite superficial. What I did was mainly imitation and reproduction. With the passing of time my perspective was greatly broadened. I was no longer content with what I did. I felt it was not enough to just focus on traditional ink. So every now and then I would try something “innovative” to break the boundaries between Chinese painting and western painting, between ink and paint. It was during the epidemic of SARS in 2003 that I got the chance to rid myself of everything else and concentrate fully on painting. My previous tentative exploration started to turn into something systematic. Vase of Flowers Series came into being during this period. I felt a new level of freedom during the integration of Chinese and western painting. I guess it was from then on that I officially started my exploration in the realm of contemporary ink art.

　　GYD: You were born and grew up in Shanghai. Shanghai has experienced dramatic changes since 1970s. You are a witness to that. As a representative artist of contemporary ink in Shanghai, what’s your understanding and perception of ink art during different times?

　　LCT: The dramatic development of Shanghai ink art started from 1980s, especially after the 85 New Wave Art Movement. Back then, under the strong impact of the introduction of western art, some ink artists started practicing experimental ink and abstract ink. At first that was just a simple combination of traditional Chinese painting and symbols of western art. It was superficial, catering to the taste of western contemporary art.

　　After 2000, the development of contemporary art in China reached a new height. Previous exploration and practice seemed too shallow. Artists started to think about how to further the innovation of ink art and how to express differently under the contemporary context. At this stage, people started to truly think about the essence of contemporary “ink” and how to present that in their practice.

　　With the increasing exchange with international art scene and the incentive from art market, artists go one step further, focusing more on in-depth discussion about the social implication of ink art and the interpretation of the nature of tradition. As a result, artists’ exploration starts to give out a stronger sense of profoundness and cultural self-confidence, putting a new face featuring more national characteristics on the international art stage.

　　GYD: You are an important figure of the contemporary Shanghai school of painting and manifest a good mastery of skills and highly sophisticated styles. Changes can be perceived in different phases of your journey in the world of art. From Vase of Flowers, Wild Valley to the recent Lotus Pond, changes can be seen in both what you choose to express and how you express it. What’s the reason behind such changes?LCT: There are two major reasons. One is the changes in the general art environment. The other is the requirement I put on myself.

　　I never see ink art as an isolated or unchangeable art form. It is exposed to the influence of the art world and the society as a whole. So is my practice. The several different phases of my art career correspond to the development of contemporary ink art, which is exactly a proof of outside influence. But no matter how the subjects of my work change, one thing I hold on to is that I use the approach that fits the time to show my perception and understanding of eastern culture and aesthetics. It is the spiritual core of my art.

　　Beside the external cause, there’s also the internal cause. As one grows older, he sees more and thinks more. As a result, there’ll be changes in what he wants to express. To me, ink is the media to convey my thoughts. I don’t want to confine myself to any particular style. Changes and developments of skills and concepts are needed. When creating the Vase of Flowers Series in 2003, what I wanted to achieve was simple: I wanted to experience a new level of freedom in painting. Gradually, I enjoyed more and more such freedom, and ink became an indispensable media to convey my thoughts. Later series such as Wild Valley and Riverside were more expressive. Bolder attempts were made and bigger changes were seen. I also took reference from western abstract art. The more recent series Lotus Pond sheds light on my further reflection on ink art. The imagery of lotus is ideal to embody the core of ink spirit.

　　Constant self-change means constant self-challenge. It’s a good thing, helping one to further his reflection upon painting and life. Works created during different phases of one’s painting practice, as traces left along a long journey, correspond to different phases of one’s thinking and life.

　　GYD: You’ve been engaged in ink art for many years and manage to retain a sense of traditional humanistic spirit in your work. In your view, how is such spirit manifested in contemporary ink art?LCT: Contemporary art puts an emphasis on artists’ perception and understanding of the current social environment. The tradition of ink art we talk about today mainly refers to the tradition of literati painting. The expressiveness and free-spirit it advocated was based on its emphasis on individuality and humanistic spirit. The essence of such spirit is passed on and is in no conflict with the contemporary context of art. Moreover, they even share one thing in common: valuing individual’s perception and independent spirit.

　　GYD: With the advance of time and technology, forms of ink art have become more and more diversified. Videos and installations offer new possibilities for expression. Compared with traditional forms and expressive approaches, how do you see today’s ink art?

　　LCT: Under a highly diversified cultural background, today’s ink painting is at a critical state. It can be appreciated from different cultural perspective, and can embody cultural characteristics of different times.

　　Just now you mentioned “advance of time and technology” had influence on the approaches, media and ways of expression of ink art. To interpret ink in the form of video or installation is indeed new change. But that is on the external level and not enough. Contemporary art needs more than that. The most important is a breakthrough on the conceptual and spiritual level.

　　Inevitably, the development of today’s ink art is under the influence of western art. Sometimes it seems the overall environment is too profit-oriented. It attaches too much importance to “new”. As long as something is “new”, it is considered good and contemporary. But “newness” needs to have a ground. “New” for new’s sake is nothing more than showing off techniques, and doesn’t touching upon the core of contemporary ink painting.

　　GYD: What do you think matters the most to contemporary ink art? Many of the problems of art in China don’t lie in art itself. In your view, what kind of art and artists are needed in today’s China?

　　LCT: Artists should first of all do their own job right, working hard on how to present good works and to speak through their works. If by expression they only repeat the past and the west, changes on the surface will be pointless. New is not necessarily good. What matters is personal perception and understanding.

　　Compared with western art, Chinese contemporary art doesn’t have a consistent foundation. For a long time, we just followed the path of western art. In this regard, a key task for Chinese artists now should be to find their root and to build the contemporary art that can feature their distinct characteristics. To do so, unity between content of form is of paramount importance. Firstly, content should be imbued with vision and ideas. Secondly, we should consider what form can best fit the content.

　　GYD: Shi Tao (a renowned Chinese landscape painter of Qing Dynasty) said “ink art is supposed to grow with the time”, which referred not only to the techniques but also the spirit it reveals. In this regard, contemporary ink art is supposed to convey individuality and social implication. Looking back upon the art history, we see that Chinese art have reached a new high in terms of individual expression since the 85 New Wave. What’s your take on that?

　　LCT: The key word of “ink art is supposed to grow with the time” is “time”. We first of all should define the current “time”. Thanks to integration, diversification and globalization, ink art becomes more and more visible on the international art scene. For Chinese ink art, the problem of “growing with the time” can be concluded as how to better construct a dialogue with the international art scene in the contemporary context. The core of the aesthetics of Chinese contemporary art lies in “imagery and rhythm”. To unfold that we’ll need to probe further into the essence of the spirit of ink art. Only in that way can we truly secure Chinese ink art a place in the highly diversified global art scene.

　　GYD: No matter how the time and social environment change, ink art has its inherent characteristics. How do you deal with that during your practice?LCT: Many say my practice is somewhat between eastern and western arts. In fact, the integration of Chinese and western philosophies is a source of inspiration for my practice. People may have different understanding towards “integration”. In my case, what I pursue is new imagery. But the root of that new imagery should lie in the essence of the eastern spirit. Any breakthrough in the name of “contemporaneity” should be based on that.

　　No matter how we endeavor to broaden the definition of ink art, it is rooted in Chinese painting and possesses its inherent characteristics. That’s why I lay an emphasis on “poetry”. Ancient Chinese painters always attached great importance to “poetry” in the imagery. It is still of great importance in today’s context. But to keep up with the contemporary context, we need to look for the “poetry” that can strike a sympathetic chord among a wider range of contemporary viewers. I guess that’s why some critics say a sense of understated visual power that is different from both western and traditional Chinese arts is perceived in my work.

　　GYD: How will you comment on your current state of art practice and what’s your expectation for your future practice?

　　LCT: Painting plays a prominent role in my life. It is almost an integral part of my life. I like spending time in my studio and enjoy the pleasure and freedom brought about by painting. I even enjoy the pain when I have to think really hard. When I was younger, painting to me was more like a way to realize my dream of becoming an artist. But now it is my lifestyle, my way of living. It’s a media for me convey my thought and express my feelings.

　　I don’t have specific expectation for my future practice. I believe painting in itself is a gift. For instance, as you keep practicing, learning and thinking, new ideas and discoveries will keep occurring to you, keep intriguing and surprising you. If anything I expect from my future practice, it will be constant self-transcendence and innovation.